Millennial Travel Podcast

The Story of with Founder Casey Fenton

Matt Wilson
January 16, 2024

Casey Fenton is the founder of Couchsurfing, a global travel community, especially great for solo travelers. Casey helped to spearhead the sharing economy & grow the platform to over 20 million users worldwide.  I consider the platform to be one of the best domestic and international travel hacks and for solo travel on a budget.   Casey is also co-founder of Upstock, a cloud-based platform to give employee equity in the company they work for.

If you don’t know the meaning of “couch surfing” it’s basically where you stay on someone’s couch when traveling, or at least that’d be my definition of couchsurfing.  The platform Couchsurfing however doesn’t mean you have to sleep on someone’s couch… The point of Couchsurfing is  to “share authentic travel experiences” and your host will put you up in their home absolutely free. 

In this episode of The Millennial Travel Podcast I discuss with Casey Fenton, Founder of Couchsurfing: 

  • His story of traveling to Iceland
  • How a trip to Iceland was an impetuous for him starting Couchsurfing and us starting Under30Experiences. 
  • The story of how Couchsurfing started
  • How Casey flew to Iceland as a solo traveler and decided to find a couch to sleep on with locals
  • Why Casey loves Iceland and has traveled their five times
  • The quick story how Under30Experiences started.
  • Why Casey Fenton is starting his new company in Iceland and is mentoring Iceland Startups
  • How they picked the name “couchsurfing”.
  • How Casey Fenton got the “travel bug” and considered himself an explorer. 
  • How he got over a break up by traveling and buying plane tickets to random places. 
  • Casey Fenton’s formula for intensity, diversity, and frequency of experience, and how he got out of his comfort zone. 
  • His idea for “hacking destiny”. 
  • What Casey Fenton learned about himself traveling? 
  • He learned to be less shy, and improved himself. 
  • Some examples of how Casey traveled to different places and how Couchsurfing was a great travel hack for saving money
  • Casey Fenton’s idea of “ego hacking”.
  • The book that opened up Casey’s eyes that we are all sleep.
  • How a silly fight with his best friend opened his eyes to a lot of things about life.
  • Casey’s idea of a “feedback ratio”. 
  • Why it’s important to have ego and how we can use it as a tool. 
  • How we can avoid suffering through non-attachment
  • How to learn to trust yourself more and let others trust you. 
  • Casey finishes talking about his startup Upstock and how you can incentivize employees with equity to anyone in your company with his tool. 

Resources from Casey Fenton:

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Auto generated transcript of this episode of The Millennial Travel Podcast with Matt Wilson and Casey Fenton of Couchsurfing

00:00:00  You are now listening to the millennial travel podcast with Matt Wilson. Another episode of the millennial travel podcast. But first, I wanted to express my sincere. Gratitude for everyone who came out through this entire Black Friday week Cyber Monday. Hack Thanksgiving. Even my birthday, there is a reason that I had a little trouble. Again, this podcast out this week and that is because we were slammed with Black Friday sales there under 30 experiences, our travel company for young people ages, 21 to 35, you guys came out on small business. Saturday, the whole week we were just overwhelmed and overwhelmed with gratitude that

00:01:00  So much support, so much enthusiasm for what we do as a community and travel will be back for 2021. We are just thrilled and yeah a lot of positivity, a lot of good vibes being sent through the travel industry and really just goes to show with that. Travel is a lifestyle. It is certainly a privilege as we fall. Come to find out and it's something that people really, it almost goes beyond a lot. It's really there is an innate need by many people to get out there and travel, of course, when it's safe, excetera excetera. But I just want to say thank you for everybody who came up came and supported us.

00:01:54  Through the sale and book something fun did something for themselves 2020. Has been a hell of a year and 2021 we're looking up specially with these vaccine announcements. Yeah, I mean there's just a lot to be grateful for this Thanksgiving. So without further Ado, please listen in to this episode with really cool guy who

00:02:22  Start an awesome website. Couchsurfing check it out, if you don't know about it. Craig place for solo, Travellers great way to meet people. This is not a commercial. It's at the site. Does not need me to talk about it because it's an awesome resource and it is a huge community. So check it out.

00:02:47  Hello, everyone and welcome. I'm your host, Matt Wilson. And today I have the honor of speaking with none other than Casey, Fenton Casey is the founder of Couchsurfing as well as up stock and his, it was just explaining to me how the goal of up stock is to bring Fortune, 1000 Equity to everyone too much, smaller companies. I just watch this text talk on how to live a thousand lives and freedom Fest in the Pyrenees of Spain deserves a nice shout-out because that is where we met where I saw his presentation on Eagle hacking. So that further Ado, Casey welcome, thank you so much. I appreciate you. Having me on the show to meet you in the Pyrenees of course. And what is so exciting about your show is about just personal development. I love Purcellville, make more than anything.

00:03:47  Things that I always try to put these days. I'm at my company's always have to do with some form of improving yourself of the individual or improving. You leave the group, the group, cohesion. So, yes, it's exciting to be on your your punk ass. Thank you. You're you're very welcome. And that we were taught that we were chatting beforehand while about a whole bunch of stuff. But also just that well, yet you mentioned, personal development, has always been a big theme in your life and we both have stories that have to do with Iceland that ended up being some kind of an infant is for both of us. Starting our our business and and travel businesses at fat. So I would love if you take me back to Iceland sure my way back. We're going way back to the year. Two thousand years old.

00:04:47  These are 40 years old. I feel like a granddaddy of the internet and I got a cheap ticket to Iceland. I had the idea for for this this idea for Couchsurfing, but I have never tried it. So I thought, I'd, I wanted you to minimum viable product the MVP, right? So I can go stay with somebody on a couch, and Iceland is so expensive there anyway, and maybe they would, if you knew the name of the student and get their email address. So, whatever her last name is the first name of the dad, so I can, I see how it works here in different names that I would encounter, they aren't licked.

00:05:47  Last name and first name to email them all on your couch and basically what I sent them was my couch reading profile picture of me. You know about 10 minutes later, everybody spammed. And I'm not twenty-four hours later remote house or something. Okay, I know I have the opposite problem. Who do I stay with? And so I had to make a decision. I went and stay with some really cool people play Super Shadow.

00:06:37  So it was really hard hanging out with these people. That seem so cool. And I was just knocked off early and just started and I got my plane ticket. I want to travel every time an end. So now I'm even launching my new company and Iceland. So I love Iceland is one of my places in the world to me. Like four times. I'm going to go there again next week. So that's a new company in Iceland. I know a lot of people over there in the Icelandic startup scene partnered with anybody over there by any chance, have a couple of a couple of some of the folks and therefore

00:07:37  I'm also I'm going to be in entering out. Icelantic startup side, there are. There are there tourism started towards our mother is a great guy. Love that guy. So much for voice text because KPMG were partnered with KPMG there. Now they've converted our documents are legal documents into Icelandic form so it's ready to go there countries, outside the US that we've been watching and it's a luncheon to get the documents done guys, who named whose name pops out in my head first because it's one of those repeated names, Christian Christensen. He is like

00:08:37  I'm thinking about Ingy, sigurdsson. He started like a Craigslist of of Iceland is that correct? A lot of my friends down here. I always hang out with him. When I go there. He basically Tom works with start-up Iceland and ever. Since everybody knows him, he's in, he's an Indian friends on it. It's a slush. So if all he's everywhere, should always go hang out with him. I love his smile.

00:09:19  Yeah, he he's a really nice guy. So Bala actually was one of the guys who I met on my very first trip to Iceland and convince me to come back. We ended up partnering for the startup Iceland conference and I brought a bunch of the speakers and the entrepreneurs on our very first trip with under30experiences. So that's really funny Comfort full circle. But let's go back in time up. First of all, I've heard some details of the story, maybe was Wikipedia. I don't know where I I read that. But there were models and R&B singers in potentially involved in your first trip to Iceland. That's right before my post. So I agreed to go, stay with. She seemed super cool. She was like an R&B singer. Everybody knew her and she open for the Fugees and I thought this would be a

00:10:19  Very interesting person to hang out with. And so I just say she seemed so friendly, she seemed like she would introduce me to other people and it seemed like it was outside of my comfort zone as well, which was part of what kind of thing is about. I would really want to hang out with introverted people and talk about computers or something. So I was like this is going to be so difficult for me, but I want to try out what it's like to stay with somebody totally different. So I got to stay with her and, and follow her friends around there all models, of course, that is very intimidating for me. So they really want to go to Kentucky Fried Chicken, for instance, a really weird, weird things that I will do what you want. Okay? That's that's really funny. So then you had your, your MVP, your minimum viable product. At least you had your proof-of-concept there that you

00:11:19  Will open their doors with the right profile, Bill to websites. At, did you had you pick the name? Couchsurfing, give me some of the early details. I think that would be interesting. It was like it had been said before. There's a Brandon song about Couchsurfing a little bit so it was very, very little bit known but not really coming. And so I just I heard that word and I and I already knew that, that's what I wanted to do and I'm like, that's it. Is what we're talking about. Its it just sounds sounds great. It sounds controversial to have someone's couch. I mean I could have been like no extra rooming or something and that's easier but it's really about this this lifestyle and so controversy really helped take off.

00:12:19  What you're saying on the strangers couch? Well, what do I think about that? I don't know, but I need to write about it every year for the next three years. In this newspaper, Rite Aid, help spread the word people want to talk about it and share it and be like cuz it's kind of like, you know, and be like a the word in it and it starts to stitch this way into the language. So it's good to think about how could this word be used? Can I be a blank or blank as an activity?

00:12:58  Not at a some words that you can you can do that. They're really good words to use, like it really got you out of your comfort zone. Of course, this one experience. But then did you personally catch the travel bug as they say and decide that you wanted to travel like this all the time. Even before that. Okay. So like I was traveling and I did a little bit in high school from home with my friend and whatever we drove to Tennessee and stuff like that. So that was it. That was interesting.

00:13:58  I was trying for months about it and I realized it just start to buy two plane tickets to random places and it just started to Mend, My Broken Heart, small, town of a thousand people and I started studying the classics law servers and I started thinking about free will, or at least I don't have people over everything. Maybe there's like exceptions, but a lot of things I'm kind of bored and it's hard to just decide, I can't decide they're over there over where? I don't even know what? I don't know. I need to illuminate, I need to strike the matches in the darkroom and starts a truck to see what, what is this room like. And so I came up with this idea of intensity diversity and frequency of experience like how intense is he has it and how often

00:14:58  Is it happening in? Then I can optimize, my experience has been through that lens and that worked out well for me and it really. And then also not necessarily believe in Free Will, is just a given made me think about, if I have to hack that, how do I hack that? Which turns into like this? I feel like the about hacking Destiny, so is that was very early on lots of traveling. And then I knew that I wanted to do something like how it's your thing, and then it was. But I'd already been shopping, all ready to travel to Egypt that are you climb the pyramids of local people helping me at all these crazy experiences because of locals. So I knew that it was about staying with local to stay in a hotel just as boring as hell did Ghost? Sure, as soon as I started to get out of your comfort zone, of course. And this is something that we always encourage encourage our listeners to do our Travelers at under30experiences excetera.

00:15:58  And everybody kind of understands the concept. And so I'm curious what you learned about yourself, as you continued to use your little at algorithm. They're your, your metrix what you started to learn about yourself

00:16:17  Go out the question. So I started to learn that that I could be less shy and I can practice being a new version of myself as being maybe a little more outgoing. Trying a different joke out I kind of cool like I look like I'm kind of cool a little bit. I think he liked the idea of walking up to somebody on the street and talking to them, like you said he liked the scariest. I mean, actually people do want to meet other people and they that you're giving them an opportunity to meet someone and maybe learn something I could do or say is no.

00:17:15  Okay, I'll go right now. Able to meet people online where then you had some permission to be able to hang out with him. So I did a big amount of permission. It was like that often. So I knew that if you want to meet and hang out, so that was good. I learned about politics. I used to think that the world is like, like computer code. It's just all of us can gears turning, and it just their rules and laws and not sit in the state legislature. I learned it is people in their preferences, it's really a solid eight people that people open doors doors and can be kind of virtual or can be, you know, they're not real guards or they're literally real Doris and David they decide whether they like you or not to open the door, so that was just kind of blew my mind. I'm like so much about learning.

00:18:15  Think about the world or the right way of thinking. It's about learning how to connect with other people. It's about learning about appreciation of Dorsey. It's about learning how to have multiple conflicting ideas in my mind at the same time and not have to make one be right.

00:18:32  That was a big Revelation for me, so kind of diversity mindsets so that I can connect with other people and appreciate really what they're saying. But even if I wasn't said that that's the way it is, that's fine. They have a different perspective was so appreciate that. So that was really, really big lesson for me. Where did you travel and maybe could you give us some examples of how you learned about maybe was a culture entirely different than yours but maybe had some commonalities tell me more about your travels. Sure, I think it was traveling at a longer when I was count your thing because instead of

00:19:18  How to get enough to pay as much to stay somewhere so you can travel mug, you don't delete your bank account and then you're staying with other people and they're a lot way more different than you are. And it's much easier to accept somebody when they're different in some ways. The more different they are the more you can accept them. It's different than someone who's kind of similar to use the more. Its it easier. It is to judge them to judge the minutiae of your differences. It's not always like that and certain types of differences can be easier to judge. But generally specially for people that see themselves as open-minded did them are different and isn't that cute? It's not real. You're not emotionally invested in those people but the people that are so close to your emotions invested in that's where that some of the hardest and most challenging acceptance comes in. So the difference is where I go and be watching myself feel like I wasn't that interesting isn't that you're right? It does people have those differences but then watching myself struggle with the people at home.

00:20:15  That I have dated a relationship with the really stormy, I saw it. Why is it? Why is it, why am I judging these people in California by myself? And it was a power was just a really intense and sunny day and it's a big surf and I thought those damn papers are going to die. They are somewhere. I started watching them. I realized some are staying close to the wave in Summer. Staying far away from the wave and they're staying in their spot right there. Not swirling around or staying to spot a bit more. I thought a lot like there's some kind of genetic dispersion or something like we might

00:21:15  Is there any of those other ones that are holding back hanging back? Like? And then they're all saying this is the right place to be. I Feel It In My Bones. You other idiotic birds are so stupid. I can't leave earlier and either way that's dumb it. Dumb place to be. Or the other one is like this is a great place to be. I'm traveling, I'm seeing great things, and you're stupid over there, just in your home, hanging out by the city of species survival and thriving in my whole life.

00:21:45  I've been coming here like judging people thinking about that place is like, that's the right place nearly as the shed because that's what we need for survival. But I started to soften my heart a little bit and have more compassion for all the different ways of thinking and being in the world that really gave me that diversity of my sentence. I was just going on judging people all the time, you know, the Pelicans have a different way and so, okay. So you started to learn more things about your yourself. You're obviously a very deep thinker. I you read somebody, and then you started, I'm at what.

00:22:39  Brought you down the path of trying to hack your ego. Which seems like his is really your, your main focus now or at least helping other people do that. So, I mean, it was a lot of things, I mean it was travel tribulations and struggled and failures and successes and people treating me a certain way I didn't like and then wondering what the hell is going on. And then reading us a lot of book called in search of the miraculous by Penske has about a child of Mystic schools and brought back a bunch of the ideas and talked about it in Russia in Europe and then eventually us. But the point of one of his teachings are really remember yourself that we're going to like to sleep. We're not aware of ourselves.

00:23:30  So that really just made me something like notice, my existence I felt like before. I was going through life, not really don't think so. I really got into trying to understand myself and how I interact with other people.

00:23:45  And then I got into kind of early on. I got into a Tit for Tat downward spiral competition with one of my best friends. That was really hard and it caused all that my relationship and I never really understood why? And I was always wondering how to see that. And then later on, I was with somebody that was working with and of course it again, chip for chats, if the downward spiral looks like I'm right. I'm right here by who's right. Right. And we see this every day in our lives. And then I started, I worked on a company called wonderous 360 feedback of life's most important questions Anonymous. You can discover what other people feel about you giving feedback and I started sweating cause of psychology and then in positive psychology they have this idea that there's a fee that ratio has positive and negative inputs in our life. With this make sense with r. Okay e okay or good and if we have a one-to-one feedback ratio, 1 positive or negative life is horrible. We want to get rid of press.

00:24:45  We want to take actually want drugs and alcohol to covered up. We might want you make a story about how it's not me, it's you or just avoid. And so that, that John Dobbins, study that over thousands of people's over many, many years at 95% chance of divorced within a year. So I started researching everything I could on ego and identity. What's going on? And I started hearing about the eagle Ledger where you're constantly, like, everywhere we go on, like, we're just adding up the positive or the negative. And that's how we feel about it. And I started thinking about how is so weird, how we identify with things that are outside of us. Like, if I said to you, I like you, you know, you remember that if I don't like your microphone right there, that's a horrible microphone. That's just a stupid man. What a stupid microphone. If you own that you said you are a bad person.

00:25:45  Talking on the microphone. Something you like gentefied with. So somewhere along the line. We started doing external identification. I thought that's really weird and interesting and cool. And we didn't have that feature as part of who we are and are in our genetics, we wouldn't have not decided what exist

00:26:07  I thought that's a future for that for the purse for the sandpipers for the species. That's a future for us though. It sucks. Because it feels like a bug because we are get tormented. When somebody says, they don't like something and we think of anything, if he goes bad thing, but really he goes to scrape thing. Anyway, we could going to eat. This is just the kind of changes. This is how I started to really get into this kind of thought. And then I had a few breakthrough, thoughts, and I hadn't seen out there and you can just, so I can try it out with my friends. Need such a big difference in our lives and just blew me away. The, as this information needs to be out there, people need to have this information to, maybe you can help so many interesting things that we could unpack from what. Like I said, I want to follow along, they can go to Billy b. I t l, y e, go Hack, Slash ego, hack.

00:27:07  And there they can see my deck around the world for last year and they can kind of follow along with some other things were saying, or just take it on the run on under 30 Co. What time are blocked for entrepreneurs and hour block for travelers. So, whatever your interest is, if you're listening, either one of those places that will have this material and we'll try to link up some of the books that you forgot for instant and stuff like that in, in the show, notes at case, you wanted to ask you about. You know, you may have heard people and, and Mystics are philosophers rather saying that the ego is kind of your road map for going throughout the worlds on here on this physical plane. And there is certainly a use for that feature as you kind of said, in Prague

00:28:07  Speak that I have attachment and identity with this microphone that you're making fun of and my microphone 9 and I feel badly about it. But I actually like that I was just making up. Tell people why we have that attachment or why maybe speculate on, why that isn't important part of life goes, if we walk around, we're going to lose our road now. Don't you think? I think so. I think a life without you guys, I'm boring life. In fact, like you consider the Alternatives, like I think there's a lot of traditions that are trying to. If you don't want to suffer at all.

00:28:57  Add, you want to have a life of perfect great, just try to not suffer if you want to have a life of interesting in meaning, please do suffer, I think suffering is the great thing in life. It's the real thing that makes us human, in the difference between the ups and the Downs is the meaning. So I read a great book called the metamorphosis of crime in July. And it was about a singular Singularity Knology us a seat supposed Singularity, simulation, kind of computer can teleport matter anywhere in the world and I was just here to help us humans. You a copy of that whatever you want, doesn't matter. You can't die. So it it just really drunk and trying to rearrange matter around us to survive and do Thrive and do whatever you want. So we can do that. Everything's teleported any second whatever you want done. So what do you do then you have no meaning people start playing these games and do just weird stuff to pass their time and it just showed me like what?

00:29:57  Set of humanness is the struggle. That's what being human is. So every time after that book or somebody to be struggling or something stalker, I feel like I'm getting my money. I forgot. So it kind of gave me kind of some compassion for myself and other people but then also I think that you know, that it's just beautiful thing that you in back to your question about the ego it if we didn't have the ego attaching us to random shit, right? I mean the ego. Basically, if I, if I go and I will be back at 4 second.

00:30:35  Where did it come from? Right? Where did it come from? I think that must be millions of years ago. We probably at some point started to keep track of like what things were positives, you know, what things are negative like it's positive. This person I'm talking to you right here, I don't doubt over there was a point where I started to not only just a catalog and identify. Okay. That's good, that's bad. Probably still have the feedback ratio of two or more towards the things that are good and away from the things are bad. But then we started to cross-link external objects. You have a feather. Beautiful.

00:31:35  And the benefit to society or to humans, is it causes diversity? You'll like my father, I want to go away from here. I mean, normally I just move around for basic needs like a food shelter, instead of being just human connections, which is kind of software-based. It's a bit harder to base cuz you have to have that human connection at that touch. Now suddenly, we have a new need called Identity or just feeling good about yourself, all the things that are in the office if you out of all the things that you identify with and you're feeling good about him.

00:32:18  You have a good night and good evil, good evil feeling. If you're feeling bad about them, this negative and you can do that say to do in contacts to

00:32:33  And so this is what causes diversity. I don't. You just told me you don't like the kind of house. I have to cross the land bridge and go to North America. They have people moving and scattering around and interacting from Philly. Weird reasons, like random anything softer base. It's not no longer does the food exist. And you said some commute, you communicated to me some symbols and I'm leaving. I'm going to kill you or whatever. So diversity is a great strategy for survival as we know the more diversity, you have more strategies for surviving, you try modern society built on diversity, built on trying different permutations. That's where it comes from. His life, might take so much stress. And so much suffering comes because of our attachment and attachment and identification with things outside.

00:33:33  If our selves and stem, we can't quite recognize or say, oh, wait a second. It's, it's just a microphone, dude. Don't go get so upset about it, but we kind of have this reflux. Thank you. I I'm I'm happy that you're reinforcing the positivity to get that ratio back way. I can say it's like, how are you going to respond, right? If your ratio is low, well it's physical pain. When your ratio is lowered is strange, your amygdala and you're making us feel pain. And if this person says, you take out the trash

00:34:33  Seabeck Ray Show, get lower your ego data, get lower is going to feel bad. So what do you do? In that case, you didn't buy the trash bags, it's your fault and I call you last week, it's not whatever stupid, but if you have a high in a feedback, ratio is your above 221. If you're like somewhere in the $4 range, you know, you have what's known as Eagle Banking and you can hear people, actually, whatever the saying. So I need to take out the trash, totally spaced, you can send in a number of positive or negative things about anybody all the time. Whenever you notice, something you appreciate really reinforce out anything. That's good. You think you think that they want maybe check in with them if you're not sure. Thank you, that's really great that you're you're thinking that I really appreciate you. Giving me a positive feedback. Thank you so much. You can do that thanks for thinking so you reinforce you can build up that positive banking. So that when you need to say,

00:35:33  Charizard out, no problem. It's easy. Not like World War 3.

00:35:38  Sure at and the Good Ol scuse me but shit sandwich comes to mind and if people haven't heard about it, you give a compliment. Then you tell the person that piece of negative feedback that you needed to give and then you try to compliment a compliment that at the end, perhaps that ratio isn't strong enough for the whole percent agree. There's a reason why that wisdom exists. We laugh about it but it's true. You know, it's at we are biologically programmed to go toward the things that make us feel good and away from the things that make us feel bad. If the ratio is too weird, we get to press to make a change. Hopefully, that's a healthy thing to do. If you're too low, you get the press to make a change, or what people do, this unhealthy is a create a story, that's not me. It's you. And that's like the story that the problem with creating stories is if they're not in keeping with what everybody else is experiencing or reality with thing.

00:36:37  You have reality debt the more reality that you have you probably know people like this, experience people with too much reality that they go around, and people are just like, looking at it, like, what? We got here too much reality. That is dangerous. You have me have a Day of Reckoning, and you can't see it because as the more it happened, somewhere people just avoid you. And it just, it becomes is really weird. Weird Hall of Mirrors.

00:37:04  So I can totally imagine. And actually, I think we all know some, but somebody out there who just doesn't quite is not quite in touch with reality, or whatever you tried to reason with this person. Maybe it's, maybe, it's someone, you're in a relationship with, maybe it's someone at work or probably a family member that, you know, the holiday just holidays, just passed. Well, you had to deal with him over the holidays, or are you seeing when you go home? How do you suggest be dealing with that person? Because sometimes there's no reasoning is counterintuitive, but what you're saying? Doesn't matter like your, your rationale is irrelevant, basically, this person may have no feedback ratio. They may have ecojet and so their biology. They're, they're literally they're having pain right now because of the Sea Cadets. So if you're like, hey let me rationalize with you that he tell you why you're wrong. Do you see the logic in my argument?

00:38:04  Don't you get it? And that person is suffering on two levels. They're going to they're really suffering at the emotional level there cuz the feedback ratio exist in the emotions. So what you can do in that case is use emotional feedback, and tell them what you care about, what you love, what you appreciate, how I really am. So glad you're here today. Thank you so much for being here today. I can see that you really care about this work. This company, our relationship. I'm really thankful to spend time with you. I'm I really, I'm a little bit nervous because I want to be with you but I'm a little bit nervous about that to be honest. You know, whenever is real and whatever can make them feel at ease emotionally. You want use more emotional tonality like emotional like look on your face the tone of your voice goes up and down. Like not unless I'm really glad you're here today. Thank you very much for being here today, doesn't work.

00:39:04  Stack a little bit. These are multiple brain is that are thinking completely separately, but they kind of interactive little bit. But if that ratio is low and you're using your intellect to try to reason with them, your reasoning with their rational brain, but the rational brain, then you're at, you're expecting the rational brain to talk to their emotions and say, okay, here it is. Emotions that that doesn't work, ever notice, it doesn't work. You need to connect directly with the emotional brain, but if the emotional brain has the feedback pressure, that's too low, it's in pain. So it's nothing to hear anything. You're saying it's going to completely just be like oh my God I love this and I love the things you truly and sincerely. Appreciate me like hey I really want to talk about this other thing. It's been a challenge for me. Watch What Happens? People. Open up and hear you. That's the number, that's the way my experience and way to reach people.

00:40:04  What time's I'll tell you that I know that. My job is to point out when people aren't doing their jobs. Well, or, when they can wear and point out where that they can improve. Because in my eyes I'm there to make them do their job as effectively as play passion for the priests people. You care about and the on the outcomes that we're all going to do a big tree together. So how do I just have to be paying attention to my ratio, always, as it is easy as that or or what's been your expected? Simple answer is the standings of Affiliated, is it? Yeah. Like Democratic are you a coach? Are you Visionary? Are you mixing? Those are using those at the right time, but even through all of those, the ratio matters is the ratio stupid. I like to say,

00:41:04  Racial matters more than anything but here's the thing to get into this too much. But here's the biggest eagle. There is confusion people become what you tell them. They are so if you whoever you got it to your being pregnant by other people and advertising every moment. And I so am I because they're telling us who we are born and we don't care about what other people think. That's a sociopath we don't want to be in that world. Do you want everybody to care what other people think? He wasn't born being tormented by what other people think? Other people thinking about me, where we all become, what other people tell us. We are the world where we become the five people. We spend time with us to be, I believe. So if you want to change who you are, you're going to have a 3 times. Greater chance of changing yourself. If you get your friends to tell you that you are already, the person you want to be.

00:42:04  You'll your biology will instantly react and you'll become. And there's plenty of ways I can go and charge it works. It just really works. It's amazing how well it works. So what you can do is you can do it actively or passively you can say you can ask people who you want to be literally. And sometimes I'll show you. This is why I don't want to be in, try to get out of him, who they want to what's a positive version of that. Get that positive version me to do that for yourself, too. And then have other people tell you, hey, I see you as this person. You said to me yesterday, you you're not you're not getting enough done or you know whatever I don't see Isis. Cool. Calm and collected evidence of that. I was impressed by that you're doing it. That's you. Instead of I can come to you and say how I heard that you don't you're not, you're feeling a little anxious and depressed and then you're like that Michael. Why is that now? And asking you to invent more reasons. Why you're anxious and depressed, doesn't work very well.

00:43:04  In fact, it's better for me to say, why are you not interested? Or at least I see you is becoming cool, collected. The reason I can explain the reason Works real short cuz we don't have a lot of time left but recent works as identity is like a snowball. If whatever you have in your identity, your pattern matching machine, your neural network, it will find more of that. Whatever is in our environment, the things that match our identity come to the surface more than anything else. That's normal. That's good things in their identity, they pop into our awareness like Saab, Automobiles everywhere. I go. See some some stopped.

00:43:48  Let me see. That makes a lot of sense. And I wanted to ask you about self talk because everyone looks in the mirror and maybe I don't really like this little couple extra pounds around my waist or I got a wrinkle common but how can you improve that ratio for yourself? Break a question? So so where comes to self? Talk. You can you can, you can use a stick. Don't like that. Wrinkled. What's going on there. You should start with wrinkles. Do you have those wrinkles as you're going to look? Everywhere, you go, you go to look and find that and still be a lot harder. It's not going to be as resilient as you can. Use that a little bit and you can get some distance with it. But at times it tough you'll fall either, it'll fall apart. So that's not a very, very great method.

00:44:44  What's stronger is, your somebody who loves to exercise your stomach, who loves exercise and loves being outside, your somebody who loves thinking about different hell techniques. Look at you, you're look at that. Look at it cuz whenever when you say that you're going to find all the evidence of that being true, if you say you're somebody who is wrinkly true it snowballs. So one unit of Effectiveness or when you saw when you have self-talk its Effectiveness in front of other people.

00:45:17  It's much more. If you even greater less a four or five three, four, five, six, units of Effectiveness. If somebody else tells you that? That's who you are. You're somebody who loves how you cutting up carrots.

00:45:29  Straight. You know you're somebody who loves me outside. If you just got back from a run, look at you and Greg. And I can say nothing, but when they walk in the door smiled, a great, you're talking to the living system, not the job of the run, good job with the Run way different to different systems. You're talking to it, right? So if you have a partner or a co-worker who you really like it when they do something, will think you really compliment them, they may continue to do that because direct positive feedback. That's great. Casey loves exercise and it's just like super positive about like eating good and all the stuff I noticed this the other day is that true? Are you that person and then

00:46:29  You know what you got me and I like I thought so I wasn't sure, but I was checking sure. And I like when you gave the example at first, you said, oh, tell me why you're not anxious and depressed or whatever you said but then you then you skip that out because you brain actually just skips over the not as I understand and goes too anxious and depressed and you actually said oh tell me why you're so calm, cool and Collective and that seems to be so much more effective is hard to find where you want to do it. Is if you say I'm not, I'm not anxious or depressed and then you got to look for the patterns in your life, there are ancient and depressed and then avoid them.

00:47:13  Rather than looking for the patterns that are will come and collect it. So, it's better to give someone that identity this deposit by Johnny, cuz then you're going to get what they want to go. It's being cool, collected. You can't get there by being not depressed. It works right before I let you go. I did want to ask you about something that is so imperative. If you were going to use these techniques and that's trust and I know this is a big topic of yours. It's big of course, in the tech world with Facebook, and our privacy, and our data and, and not true. It's big and business, but it's also very big for just not trusting yourself and gaining trust with the people around you who you are using these techniques with an end trying to get his genuine as possible. So what's your take on on, trust? SOS pet sheet for these techniques. We're literally in me so many people.

00:48:13  Call nikhil Asian. Like we're getting into people's Egos and identities heavy stuff, right? And it has its powerful things, just like anything that can actually have an effect as powerful, right? So I would like the way I like to say it is, it's a tackle. You need to be ethical about it. Now, advertising is already doing this to us. So I think it's important that she get the word out about how this works. What is the eagle? How does it work? How is it affecting us? Of course, people can use anything is powerful for the end of the Run game. So what I would say is should know if you're doing it, ethically is ask for permission. There's two ways to do it. I would say one is positive and what is active. When you if you're doing at in and out of passive way, I think you can be less permission seeking. It's like anytime someone says run, then you respond saying. Yes, I did. Thank you for recognizing. I really helps me so much when you recognize that because it makes gives me the energy to want to go on a run tomorrow. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that, right. Thanks for thinking that you're just looking for X. And

00:49:13  Some people are encouraging and Direction. You want to go. Thank you so much for recognizing that emotionally. Thank you so much. I think that's a really that's very, that's a reasonable thing to do, Sarah, start to tell people, hey I see you this way. Some people would never do that. Maybe that won't matter cuz people will recognize. I thought the way this works is you say hey there's this deck. I saw that Casey told me about this deck. I think it might be interesting to read the deathless talk about it. Now, let's do it. Now, exact case, you might be thinking, everybody knows the trick doesn't work anymore. I mean, is the neocortex. You got the limbic system now. So if I sit here and I say, even though, you know it's fake. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to criticize you or horrible blue shirt. I can't believe you're wearing a blue shirt like that.

00:50:13  This. I mean the way there's a button like that I can't. And the way that is curving over like that. Your hair isn't what's this thing in the background over there. I'm not sure about that boards behind you really hurt you or are you putting yourself in front of a green screen? Is that what you're trying to do here?

00:50:34  But I told him that to them and it doesn't matter because your neocortex knows how I feel like laughing. Doesn't matter, but the limbic system feels like, write, two different brands. You're talking like you said, you can't, you can't hear or not. It's the limbic system to can't hear the not all. I can hear something very simple. It's like I have a person, they're looking at me. They did that look on her face and I don't like it like it like it or don't like it. So,

00:51:10  Same thing, I asked if I go and I'm like, you want to be cool, collected, you want to be running, you want to be your kind of parents everyday and and your salary even though, you know, I don't know if you have stuff day, I saw you do anything. It was great. I really appreciate it. How you got in there? Are you you're a master slicer on those carrots. And I really do like this microphone, a lot. It's like gold and I like the logo there. I can't really see what is a little blurry, but I like to look at it looks pretty cool, I can just go on and on about made up things and then suddenly you feel like hell yeah, great. And she could try this with your friends, try it. Like a whole bunch of negative compliment or just make them up and you'll see that it's two different brands and you can watch it affecting both differently simultaneously and when you do it in succession, you really feel it. That's great.

00:52:10  Just looking in the mirror and trying it yourself. I'm sure if we ran back this video, you would see when I was smiling when you were complimenting me. Just because I was getting positive feedback, regardless of what you were and when did you feel it? Could you feel it when I was doing that for sure? And then once you started going down your your Negative Nancy. I might have been smiling because I was laughing towards the end. Ridiculous. But yeah, totally totally, my limbic system was, was on to what you were doing their case. He's so just, um, can't figure out that. I I don't don't like you but yeah, it says, I like you.

00:53:00  That's just a little primer other things. I must shamelessly. Plug my startup up stock because that's what I'm working on in. Like 19 would not be happy. If I wasn't doing that, I need to make sure we're getting that out there then. Yeah, I stopped being about the last Fortune 1000 equity and you got to, you got to get the equity that fortune 1000 are using and it creates alignment so that if you have a start, anything from the start up, even if you're pre formation all the way at the hundreds of employees, your leadership becomes that much more potent, that much more powerful when people people can believe you, when they know you're lying. Like they know that you have the similar with similar Financial incentives of the same. Then when you say as a leader, let's charge up that hill was charged, charged up the hill, I believe what you're saying, but if they're not sure, if you're really in it for that with them, in the same way, you say, what's really going on here,

00:54:00  Not only did the money part of it, but just said, the alignment signal at Sam's that the care and every reason to get herself can't I just super excited to bring us the world so that startup Founders and start-up workers and Company. People and companies that are suffering with stock options, not suffer anymore, and people can work together and I saw some of the problems that we need to solve this world before before, it's too late to ask you. If you're one of those sneakers, that's great, thank you for that too. And we will, again, look that up up up stock on under 30 Co., because we have definitely a lot of us start up. Small business, people listening in on that are Travelers. Of course, I don't know. 30 experience is most likely already are aware of couch surfing. And you've built a worldwide Network through trust. So there's nobody better to to take these less Mighty than you yes, please.

00:55:00  If you want to get a 2019 Equity update, like, what's the equity guy? Where's Equity going in, 2019 podcast? So, not to make a scene, where can people find you online and get in touch with you and every once in a while? So I'm going to send out my book. I'll send you an email or something.

00:55:39  Podcast listeners, thank you. I know I mentioned Black Friday small business Saturday Cyber Monday, but don't forget give Tuesday. When we travel, we try to give back to the places where we operate as best as possible, supporting the local economies have a real connection with the local people, trying to get involved with organizations, who know what the local communities need and how we can support. And thus, giving Tuesday, I know it's a tough Economic Times for a whole lot of people, so even if it's just giving to friends or family and not talking about monetary, you know, donations and that

00:56:25  But it's I got do something nice for for somebody else and it doesn't have to be on giving Tuesday. Of course, and you might have seen over on my Instagram, @MattWilsonTV, or my Twitter. Also, @MattWilsonTV that I put up a post about my dad who passed away this year from Progressive super nuclear. Palsy a really horrible disease known as PSP and her degenerative disease. If you've listened to the episodes of the live different podcast, how were we talk a whole lot about health, especially brain, health meditation, Etc. You'll know this is something that he struggled, he struggled with for the past five years and so, yes, I did a little post to raise awareness for a cure. PSP. This disease is similar to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's but it gets a lot, less attention and so,

00:57:25  How to raise awareness in the best way that I was part of that possible for me and also made a donation to cure PSP So if you were looking for a place to give check that out. I'm over on my Instagram @MattWilsonTV or Twitter, that he got so much go out there and make the world a better place.

Matt Wilson
Matt Wilson is Co-founder of Under30Experiences and Author of The Millennial Travel Guidebook: Escape More, Spend Less, & Make Travel a Priority in Your Life. He is host of the Live Different Podcast, Millennial Travel Podcast, and formerly Co-founder of He is committed to helping people live more adventurous lives.


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